On Why Kindman & Co. Exists & How We Got Our Start
Kindman & Co. has now been up and running for 4 years! Amanda, our care coordinator, sat down with our co-founders, Kaitlin and Paul, to finally share the story of just how our practice got started and the importance of the social-justice, relational approach that we take.
for those new here, a quick introduction to paul & kaitlin kindman
Paul Kindman: My name is Paul Kindman, he/him pronouns. I am the clinical director. And I guess I'm also co-founder and practice CFO, I wear a lot of hats here. I'm a therapist and clinical supervisor. I'm Weezie's dog co-parent.
Kaitlin Kindman: Hi! I'm Kaitlin, also Kindman [she/her pronouns.] Also a co-founder, Co-Co-founder! I'm the CEO and practice director. So that means I do a little bit more of the administration, kind of running behind the scenes, making the practice happen with the much appreciated support of Amanda. I am also a dog co-parent and co-parent of four forgotten cats. What else? I'm also a clinical supervisor here. Yeah, I think we both wear a lot of hats.
how kindman & co. came to be
Kaitlin Kindman: How did we decide to start Kindman & Co.? So I think we decided to start Kindman & Co. on our first date. Do you agree?
Paul Kindman: Certainly, in theory.
Kaitlin Kindman: Yeah. Right. Not so much in practice. But I think the original impetus for Kindman & Co. was, I think, us both being therapists and starting to date and imagining what it could be like to have our own practice. We both come from community mental health agency work, shout out to The Relational Center. We so deeply value social justice, access to care, groups, some of the things that we're accustomed to in community mental health, while also valuing [the] sustainability of clinicians. And so I think that is kind of what we set out to do by opening our practice, was to try to marry those two pieces. And social justice therapy is a huge part of what we do, while also wanting to support our clinicians to have boundaries and a work life balance. And that's something that can be hard to find in agency work. So, what would you add?
Paul Kindman: Yeah, I mean, I think you did a really lovely job of describing why we're doing this, I mean, we, we really want the world to be maybe just a smidge better, ideally, a whole lot better, I think it can be a lot better. There's a lot that's really messed up about the systems in our society. And I think working in community mental health, we really came up against some of these larger systems. And so you know, we want to do our part by creating some systems, by creating a company, by creating an organization. We set out to do our part to sort of make some change in the world and through the way that we engage with our clients, through the way that we engage with our co-workers here – we're hoping to make an impact that ripples out.
social justice focused therapy at kindman & co.
Amanda Lam: Yeah, I see that. That's also why I applied here! If you were to describe Kindman & Co, to someone who hasn't ever heard of it, how would you describe it?
Kaitlin Kindman: That's a good question. A toughy. The elevator pitch. We are, I will just say for myself, I am not a concise person. My elevator, I will say, is like a high rise building. So, you want to take this one?
Paul Kindman: Oh, yeah, sure. I would say it's “therapy for being human.” Where essentially we strive to practice therapy, give therapy in the most human way possible, the most human way that we know how, which is by leading with our own humanity, our own imperfection or messiness, our own being impacted by the world.
Kaitlin Kindman: Yeah, I would add to that, making our journey in the elevator a little longer, that I think, just kind of summarizing what Paul was saying earlier, that part of what sets us apart from maybe other private practices is the social justice focus, right? That we're constantly thinking about what it means to be an individual in relationship, and [an] individual in community. And looking at the ways that society and culture have shaped us and its systems of oppression. And that's a huge part of who we are and what we support our clients to do. We'll work on a shorter version…
pros and cons of running a private practice
Amanda Lam: Thanks for that. When you started, what would you say was one of the hardest things, or something you struggled with, like growing this company and starting this company?
Paul Kindman: I mean, I think there are a number of things for me, certainly. Initially, it was like taking the leap. And doing that. I mean, I don't come from a family that are just starting businesses, or any kind of entrepreneurial stuff. I mean, my entire career, I worked in the nonprofit sector, since graduating from college. So I think for me, it was sort of getting up the courage and being supported, you know, by my partner in order to take a leap. It was a big hurdle. It was a big challenge. I know, I don't think I could have done this, without you.
Kaitlin Kindman: So, I am a natural born leader and entrepreneur, I think my parents and Paul would tell you, so that part came pretty easy. I was happy to be a support. I think I've always been like, I'm going to do something someday, you know, just always had that feeling about myself. I think the hardest part was trying to figure out who we are in the world, right? And there's a lot of therapists in Los Angeles. And in a lot of ways, we all do the same thing, or some version of the same thing. And in a lot of ways, it's very different. And so over the years, I think we've learned with a lot more clarity, like who we are as business owners, and with all those hats that we mentioned, right, like different kinds of leadership roles, but also who our clients are, right? And we've gotten really clear on the kind of client who loves working here and loves working with the therapists that we have. And so I think that has been an initial challenge but has been really exciting to watch. And we get to enjoy being in community with so many like-minded people who are also passionate about making the world better.
Amanda Lam: I think you've touched on it, the positives. But what are some of your favorite parts of being co-founders of a practice?
Kaitlin Kindman: The first thing that comes to mind is getting to meet so many incredible, blossoming therapists. Every time we have a round of hiring, I think back to when I was in the opposite chair, the opposite screen, or you know, however we're doing it, and we come into contact with so many inspired, excited helpers, right? [People] who are so committed to spending their lives helping other people, and making the world better. And it is so rare to feel excited to go to work. And I can say, I'm so grateful that I love coming here and getting to hang out with all of you, and all of our fabulous team. And what a treasure that is.
Paul Kindman: It is. I mean, we do have the best team and I'm genuinely so with you.
Kaitlin Kindman: I mean, it's not a competition, but we do. We do have [the best team.]
Paul Kindman: [My favorite part is] coming to work with you [Kaitlin]. That's my favorite. Sometimes. Yeah, there's so many things I love about running Kindman & Co. Absolutely, the team, absolutely. My clients, I love. It's such a privilege to get to do the work that we do. And get to lead with our own humanity, I get to show up as me. I don't have to…you know, we're talking about wearing different hats, but it's not like wearing masks. Like, I wear the hat of a therapist, I show up being curious and interested about other people's experience. But I get to do that as me. I get to have meaningful, impactful conversations day in and day out with people who share my values. And that's really meaningful to me. And I get to deal with Weezie here. And I get to do that surrounded in a beautiful office, in a wonderful neighborhood. And surrounded by incredible people.
practicing relational therapy & what it means
Kaitlin Kindman: Yeah. And I wholeheartedly agree. And I think the other thing I would add is that it's I mean, being practice co-founders and business owners, we do get to have a say in what it looks like to practice therapy here. And one of the things that is so joyful and powerful for me is to show people, especially people who've actually been to therapy before, that therapy can look like this. Right? It doesn't have to be that blank slate, Freudian shit where you lay on the couch, and you barely make eye contact with your therapist. And they're like hiding behind a notepad. But it can really be this human-to-human experience, like through relationships, through walking alongside each other, right? Me, as a therapist, I don't have to be an expert. But I can just be like a traveler, right? Like I'm a fellow traveler joining with you. And we're exploring the experience of being human and all of its messy and beautiful and painful ways. And I think one of the most exciting things for me to hear is when we have a client who's new come and say, “this is the place I've been looking for.” Like, “I didn't know that there were therapists who are real like this.”
Amanda Lam: In this similar vein, the folks here and you both practice relational therapy. And it's mirroring that humanness. So, how would you explain what relational therapy is and how that translates into your work?
Kaitlin Kindman: That's a great question. And consistently hard to answer. For me, I'm like, it's like me, doing this, being myself! How would you describe what relational therapy is, [Paul]?
Paul Kindman: Well, I think it is really complex, and there's a number of different ways to come at it. In essence, I think, it's therapy that privileges the human relationship, above everything else. So, right, when we come to therapy, we often talk about some of the most meaningful and important and sometimes trivial things in our lives.
Kaitlin Kindman: Like what TV show are you watching?
Paul Kindman: But as relational therapists, we privilege and focus on building as real and robust a relationship as humanly possible with our clients. Which means that we are going to be impacted by our clients, right? We get to hear about our client's greatest challenges and greatest successes. And by coming into contact with them, we change too. And so as relational therapists, we lead with that. We lead with the way in which we're impacted by our clients, and vice versa.
Kaitlin Kindman: Essentially relational therapy is like an incubator or a practice for exploring ways to be in relationship with others. But that doesn't mean that the relationship that I have with my clients, that Paul has with his clients, is any less authentic or true, or caring, right? Like I tell my clients that I love them, and I genuinely mean it. And so it's a space where we lead with what's happening between you and I. And of course, we're exploring your stories and your experiences. But we do that by coming back to the place that happens between you and me. And like, what is it like to hear me say that “I care about you?” Can we stay in that present moment to get there? So, we're kind of always coming back to the here-and-now and experience of being in connection.
Amanda Lam: Relationships are important.
Kaitlin Kindman: Exactly. They're essential. Right? Who are we as humans if we are not in relationship?
Kaitlin Kindman, is a co-founder of Kindman & Co., an activist, and a feminist. Her purpose is to help her clients come to believe that they are not alone, they belong, AND they inspire—they have the power to bring about change. She works with her clients to feel more connected, so that they take actions that improve their relationships and the world.
Kaitlin is deeply committed to providing socially just and anti-oppressive therapy. She really loves working with couples to improve their relationships and deepen intimacy, with other therapists and healers, as well as entrepreneurs and other business owners. Kaitlin finds true enjoyment in cuddling with animals, a just-right temperature cup of tea, feeling the sun on her face, and dancing in supermarket aisles.
Paul Kindman is a licensed marriage and family therapist, who is particularly interested in exploring the harms of traditional stories of masculinity and cultivating new, fuller versions of masculinity that adopt a feminist stance and invite more authenticity. In this vein, he is especially passionate about working with male-identified clients and couples who are interested in deconstructing gender norms, deepening their emotional experience(s), and building more vulnerability and intimacy in their relationships. He is also excited to work with individuals and partners navigating experiences of immigration and acculturation, as well as other therapists and helping professionals who are building their careers and wanting to bring social awareness more into their work.
GET HELP NOW
If you are interested in therapy with Kindman & Co. and would like to learn more about the services we have to help you, follow these quick & easy steps:
Schedule a free 20-minute phone consultation with our Care Coordinator.
Get matched with the therapist who’s right for you.
Start feeling more supported and fulfilled in your life and relationships!
THERAPY SERVICES AT KINDMAN & CO.
We are here for your diverse counseling needs. Our team of therapists provides lgbtqia+ affirmative therapy, couples therapy & premarital counseling, grief & loss counseling, group therapy, and more. We have specialists in trauma, women's issues, depression & anxiety, substance use, mindfulness & embodiment, and support for creatives. For therapists and practice owners, we also provide consultation and supervision services! We look forward to welcoming you for therapy in Highland Park and online.